Now, for you experienced button people .... WHAT DO I DO WITH THEM? I want to sell them, but dont know the best place to post them and am a bit overwhelmed with prices and where to start. I have a lot of vintage buttons. The important thing is if you clean it, be very careful not to scrub on the fibers. Back in the day, there was plenty of bone, and it was very easy to carve. There are actually many of these metal "picture"-type buttons. (Received Pronunciation) IPA(key): /bɹɑːs/ 2. Any thoughts? I've also found this article helpful for identifying materials that beads are made of. 1. in their original wrapping! They were mainly white with sometimes a calico pattern, and some had what looked like a stenciled pattern on them. I am not sure of the exact origins- other than it comes from the fact an officer will normally wear a fancier uniform than the enlisted. Brass is a term for officers especially high ranking ones. I have 3 black plastic Girl Scout buttons. One was if the button is just plain glass, washing in mild soap and water is fine, but the ones that have an iridescent finish or may have a coating should simply be wiped gently with a soft cloth. fastening. Quite beautiful. Members have been collecting since the 40s . Mary is mad at the cop, but he dare not leave the house without his uniform. Thank you. Some are loose. Bakelite buttons grew in popularity and were very common until the 1940s. One way is to look at the material in or around the shank or buttonholes. My favorite is glass buttons they are so beautiful. I have terminal cancer and would like them to go to someone who appreciates them rather than the rubbish. . These are all sew through buttons, and many had stencil-like patterns or colored decals on them. Platt’s Black Brass Button This variety of Leptinella gruveri is a perfect option for planting along the edges of the pathways or between flagstones. TY for your article it was very helpful....I recently inherited my great gmothers button collection which is extensive and need help pricing it. I have a button marked Burton 1904. Do you do that sort of consulting work? Could this button type date to the period when the Apaches occupied this area, or does the button post-date 1870? There is one large and three smaller ones. I am now trying to learn about them as well. They can be opaque, transparent, or both, and they come in all shapes, sizes, and colors. The way to clean these buttons is to wipe off with a soft cloth, or you can take a lemon and slice it in half and dip it in salt and then rub it on the buttons, wipe with a damp cloth and let dry. Bakelite tends to be more opaque than clear. Most say just to clean off with a soft, dry cloth. Townsfolk rushed to Greer's aid, sure he would recover in a few days, but the Brass Button Kid had already discarded the gun and resolved to move on to another territory. The Kid fired back, his shot grazing Greer, who fell. Fast & Free shipping on many items! The patterned China buttons were made to complement patterned textiles made during that time. Jun 25, 2013 - Tips to identify the types and age of US military uniform buttons including backmarks, device, and construction. Maybe late nineteenth century. I haven't worked in a few years due to my chronic health issues getting worse so it helps supplement my husband's income. It is a pewter pressed dog . Sterling, gold, or pewter buttons were much less common. Hi, Thank You for all the information posted. Who would I contact? We are always looking for new members. (Identifying the different types of plastic is looking to be an enormous undertaking) thank you again for thd information and also for tge references to other resources. They are certainly NOT Bakelite and they are not Lucite,either. These two buttons also demonstrate other manufacturing differences, with a British-made button on the left, and a Confederate “local” on the right. I wondered if you know why they are called that? He arrives home with it and tells the cop to take it to the station house, it will mean promotion for him. Vegetable ivory became the choice button for men's jackets, which were introduced during that time and replaced old dress coats. I just found BOXES of old buttons. Can you recommend any books that have a Good pictures, history, and value? I would appreciate any help can you give me, Really enjoyd reading about your journey. Also, please provide a published reference. Hi all! Is there anywhere in Tucson or Phoenix where I can take some to find out what they are worth? I recently picked up a set of 9 buttons that measure about 3/8 inch with metal backing. Hoping someone here can tell me if I have done terrible justice to the buttons I had....lol. Many thanks. Bakelite's patent expired in 1927, so the Catalin Corporation started making buttons (same as bakelite) but added 15 more colors. Some of the old lucite buttons are very colorful with glitter embedded in them, and some also had rhinestones mounted on them. A tip for storage-don,t mix types of buttons. Jamie loves writing about DIY projects, decorating on a budget, craft ideas, and creative ways to reuse and upcycle products. I hate the thought of reserving all of thos buttons onto another jacket. We used to make jewelry with her botton tin, then at the end of play we undid the string and put them back in the tin for next time. It is a way to identify the creator’s work and reputation while conveying a certain standard of quality. What was its purpose? It is of a woman with an early twentieth -century hair-do, I believe. Sylvia Liszka Durell from Florida on August 19, 2018: I enjoyed your article and the photos are great. They came in all shapes and sizes and could be quite colorful. study for age, material etc. For others that are made of multiple materials or have enamel overlays, it is best to use a soft cloth to lightly polish. I have many buttons collected by my grandfather who died in 1948. 5 out of 5 stars (313) 313 reviews $ 3.00. We have not cleaned any as when we are finished sorting, we will leave that job to the future owners. Thank you for the information. The smell, though, you are right - always there. They release gases that will disintegrate themselves and other buttons nearby. The former seaman’s suspicions were now thoroughly aroused. They like to be on the conservative side. It's not easy to find help and there aren't many books on button collecting. Thank you, https://www.facebook.com/MOHAMEDKAELHAMIDO/. https://www.thefreedictionary.com/brass+buttons, An old man with a gray whisker under the chin and, Soapy stood still, with his hands in his pockets, and smiled at the sight of. I figured it was a perfect time to write a vintage button article. And many other assorted, glass ones. The majority of glass buttons made during the 20th century were made in what is now Czechoslovakia, handmade by skilled button makers. Anyway, my plan had always been to make a picture out of them, finally a few months ago I started and ran out of certain colors, and turned to Ebay to find some, and OH MY GOODNESS, I never knew that some could be valuable and there were so many different kinds, I have no clue. This is just the information I have found through my own research from what I felt were trusted antique button resources. They are made of a soft metal. Definition of brass in the Idioms Dictionary. (General American) IPA(key): /bɹæs/ 3. Shortly after the disappearance, the Cowderlys put the house up for sale and, leaving Philadelphia, dropping out of sight. Any contact information appreciated. Some brass or copper buttons had a painted or enameled finish. I am trying to figure the composition of a button I found in the debris while doing demo in a plaster-and-lathe [20's-40's?] I have found your article here very helpful and I shall now use the information to sort the sheer from the goats, so to speak! ButtonGlutton re: The National Button Society. I know some are pearl, but believe most are plastic, some shell, maybe coconut and wood. Now I know that some rather stinky black beads I just acquired are probably celluloid! Some buttons were made from leather, shank, and all. Brass buttons may refer to: A Yorkshire idiom, meaning someone has no money, i.e. catch. One way to identify a real MOP button is to put it against your cheek. The majority of vintage cloth-covered buttons were round, and they came in all sizes from very tiny to super large. Of buttons. Some say they smell like cod liver oil or have a sweet chemical smell. You may check it out here: https://anotherperfectdaughter.wordpress.com/2019/... Great article. However had them tucked away for the last 10 years and have Now rediscovered my love for them. Worldly theory. You won't get what they're worth. I would like to sell my buttons because I will be moving in a few short weeks and I wont be able to take a lot of things and I could use the extra money for the move. The seller said they were old, but I didn't realize just how old they were. They are comparable to glass buttons as far as weight. house today. Excellent job my husband have a hard time even with glass lol but your findings just gave us some hope for identification sake. I also give button shows and love to tell about them. Over the years, I am now 76, I have amassed a large (and I mean extensive) collection of buttons, quit a lot of them seem to be from the 19th and early 20thC. In the **Bakelite** pic...one or two look to be thermoset but most of them are not. A set of bone buttons will never be the same size, only approximately. I have been collecting buttons since 2005. These buttons were first introduced in 1862 at an exposition in Paris, France. First, if anyone just cuts & pastes nationalbuttonsociety.org, you'll get an error page. Is there a price list. Do any one here want to buy them? Brass buttons is a unique Australian perennial that can adapt easily to a variety of climates. These buttons feel heavier than other buttons, yet some of these could be very thin. They’ve got feathery, bronze or black foliage. Some were dyed with other colors, and some had cloth or even glass mounted on them. I haven't really thought about buttons for so so long and as I was describing some of mine I couldn't remember whether they were Celluloid Tight Tops or Drums. Sterling, gold, or pewter buttons were much less common. Some had metal on the back. ... English dictionary definition of brass buttons. Also there are national conventions as well as local. Each button has one person and each button has a different person. It's a beautiful jacket. Each button has a small picture of what looks to be victorian age men and women. If it smells like Vicks Vapor or mothballs, it is celluloid. I've been through far more than my fair share of trials and tribulations in life and I'm just so ready to become the person I'm meant to be. My first foray into vintage buttons. Definition of brass buttons in the Definitions.net dictionary. Favorite Add to 1 & 1/4" 32mm 50L Feature Buttons Antique Brass buttonboxleics. I have unearthed a 2 hole lead button near some battlefields in Scotland of Cromwell era. There were a few that had cracked apart. These buttons were sturdy and made for frequently worn clothing like men's work shirts. My grandfather who passed away 24 years ago and bought them at an auction in the early 1970's. On many, you can also see brown shell markings on the back. I've just begun to collect buttons so this information is priceless. ‘Moments later, another man in a snuff-coloured coat with yellow metal buttons suddenly drew a small pistol and fired it at the man in blue.’ ‘The suit he had on when I saw him, of rich, snuff-colored silk, was cut with the virtuosity that only subtropical tailors expend on hot-weather clothing.’ found 2 metal 4 hole buttons with the word boss written on them could you tell me about date wise on them? The photos are actual photos of the buttons I recently acquired. My parents owned a costume buisness when I was little, 40 years ago. I have been collecting buttons for the past 2 years, I have one found made of stone. You may need to clean them off with a polishing cloth to see what metal they are but be gentle on painted metal buttons so you won't rub the paint off. many of questions about buttons and value can be answered by a button expert and collector. We will be creating a website for our collection when we have finished putting it in order. And a few are definitely Art Deco. Thanks for your excellent research and footwork. Brass and Bronze Ingot Manufacturers, Inc. Love the article and have printed it out, but where can I learn more? They bear miniature green flowers during the summer season. I am always late when it comes to good luck I would love your old buttons to take up a new home with mine but I am pretty sure you have already let yours move on I have been saving since I was about seven I just love them thank you very much. I have several button like your pictures.how can i locate a buyer. Another way is to look at it under a UV light. hook. Your article was informative and extremely helpful. Some were glass, cloth-covered, metal, and lots of them were made from plastic. I've read multiple places that these shouldn't be cleaned in water. Do you know anything about whistler buttons. There are tons of different pictures on metal buttons. I have all colors of glass buttons, hand painted glass buttons, bone buttons, all the kinds of plastic buttons and metal buttons. Brass - Idioms by The Free Dictionary. Some have noticeable layers of thin ridges or lines on them. Is their someone in the world that I can send a photograph of a button to know its vintage and kind. I know nothing about the buttons and will not have time to study. Bobble you can sell your buttons on eBay. Believe there from the 50's. It is suggested to slosh them around in a container with mild soap and water without scrubbing, rinse well, and pat dry. Michael klinkhammer on December 16, 2019: I went metal detecting and found a button, it says1763 its got kk a cross at the top lot of design. Buttons are the 3ird largest collectable in the world . Rare Colour buttonboxleics. I have Been collecting buttons for years. This information is so helpful. I have always loved buttons and used to play in my nan's odd button tin. on this website as well. You have inspired me to sort through them. From 1918 to 1939, popular styles of glass buttons include pictorial, cut crystal, and realistic, which is like pictorials. Except, I find, in the hayfever season ... Hello, I found some buttons that are very old. I have purchased the tools and other items I need for my studio over the past several years, but due to our financial situation getting alot worse since I stopped working, I haven't had the opportunity to finish setting up shop (I still need several tools and silver). Very welcome information thank you. The seller (extremely reputable) said 1940's or older. There are other types of vintage buttons, but I've covered many of them. From shop buttonboxleics. People...please,if you are reading this...the information here is mostly entirely accurate. I have been collecting for about 8 years so I have a small collection but I lve everything about buttons. email@example.com. Bakelite? Also some of mine are large Stardust Bakelite Circa 1925. Like others, confined by COVID19, and getting to little projects I havent thought about in 10 years! brass phrase. brass buttons synonyms, brass buttons pronunciation, brass buttons translation, English dictionary definition of brass buttons. Real MOP buttons will be very cold against your cheek. Sure wish I had know before I started breaking backs off, filing down, etc. She was born in 1877. Bone buttons were heavier than plastic buttons. I have been in love with buttons since my grandmother (born 1898) gave her button can to my mother. I used to be a fanatical button collector and I have a massive collection that I am just starting to dispose of. Definition of brass buttons. You don't need anything else. Today, many vintage glass buttons are referred to as Czech glass. If you could help or answer some questions, I'd greatly appreciate it. Any info would be wonderful. House arrest, lol, the coronavirus19 that makes couch potatoes of us all. if the first two pics are not Bakelite and Celluloid, then what are they? I have questions regarding some of these and I can't find anything for some the buttons I have. I have no idea what to value them at. With your help I now think that it is a pewter button. Rhymes: -ɑːs, -æs Some places said NO water at all, and others said it was okay to use it on some. I have had a similar, I have a large collection of buttons from glass to wood to Bakelite and military brass . I don't see a single celluloid button in your picture of celluloid buttons. Today, any pieces that were clear and have turned very yellow are referred to as apple juice bakelite, and opaque buttons that have turned very yellow are referred to as cream corn bakelite. I don't really know anything about them and was wondering if your have any idea of where to get a book or who could tell me about them. So separate, and watch what you store them in. Some places said it's okay to wash these in warm water and mild soap, but make sure to dry them thoroughly. Jane Boeve. All content on this website, including dictionary, thesaurus, literature, geography, and other reference data is for informational purposes only. MON-FRI 8 a.m. - 5 p.m. CST Etsy buyers appreciate the details of vintage items, not just getting the cheapest price. It was hard to research these buttons without getting hungry! Bone buttons also have a very dry feel to them. Wonderful DIY resource. I never thought to post this before now, surprisingly~lol. I've come back to this thread several times to see if anyone is parting w/ button collections, but I always seem to be a "day late, dollar short". completely enlightening. You might enjoy reading it-- you can find "Haiku for Button Lovers" on Amazon: www.amazon.com/-/e/B07GDNQJF5, I had several buttons I had been collecting for about 35 years, some were my Mother's . What does brass expression mean? I washed one of my buttons and now it smells faintly of old fish, any ideas what it could be made of? I would love more information on clay buttons, A friend as several and they have moulded faces of kings, Queens and Shakespeare. From shop buttonboxleics. Plus I have some lovely little very flat fabric-covered metal ones with 2 large holes, they intrigue me, any clues? However the first two pics are not. on the face," and that the cap have "small size buttons at the sides of the same material and design, as those of the vest . What does brass buttons mean? See more. Most vintage metal buttons were made from brass or copper. It was named vegetable ivory because it resembles real ivory though it is not as heavy. Please appreciate it is 15 years since I've looked at these buttons and I can't find any comparable pictures on line to help. The other button is referred to as a 2-piece button, the back, and the front which is made so that it wraps around the outer edges of the back. Requirements Objective Description. It should have the smell of formaldehyde. Some are carved, pressed with fine-lined patterns, painted, or some have a shiny, mottled look. They were made from animal bones, mainly cattle. I have a few . Can you tell me about it? All suggestions appreciated. Right now, for non-members, there are 3 articles & 3 worksheets available. I recently was given some old buttons. I am a professional archaeologist. In the mid-1800s, a British chemist named Alexander Parkes developed celluloid using cellulose, a derivative of plants, more specifically wood and cotton fibers. Oh my! It was produced by DuPont Plastics. Thank you, Auction find lead to your article. The Apache encampment was probably in use up until circa 1870, the area then utilized by a rancher up until the early 20th century. I love buttons, i have been collecting them for about 50 years. Learn more. Vintagebuttonbabes@gmail.com on April 06, 2018: There is a national button society as well as state and local chapters across the US. Glass jars are still the most reliable and non-reactive. "And pay with what? I do so wish for 10 lb of old buttons! We looked down and saw a object that was out of place. They will have uneven holes, and inside the holes will be a brownish color. Fast & Free shipping on many items! The buttons are one of the two distinctive features of a blazer – usually buttons are made of contrasting mother of pearl, silver, pewter, brass or gilt embossed with anchor and a scroll (Nelson buttons) or a crest/logo of the school, college, club, sports team, or association. I'm sure I can find a way to atleast cover the shipping cost. Some of these buttons are pretty old. ... Brass Board; brass buttons; brass ceiling; brass chills; Brass Craft Manufacturing Company; Brass Eagle; Other places have said they can be cleaned with Simichrome polish. Do not store celluloid buttons in airtight containers. greatcoat definition: 1. a long, heavy, warm coat, worn especially by soldiers over their uniform 2. a long, heavy, warm…. Celluloid was the very first manmade plastic, but it wasn't completely synthetic. We have thousands of buttons of all the sorts you listed here plus rubber, paper and so far unidentifiable materials. These buttons were called catalin. Green and white marbled plastic round button? Paris Back antique Victorian brass button with faceted riveted cut steels - concave face with textured brass design EyeFind. Many of these have military symbols on them. : the golden-yellow flower heads of a South African composite plant (Cotula coronopifolia) naturalized along the coast of California and used as an ornamental. Age patina is often an asset to vintage items and we did not know if buttons are the same. Funds get really tight in the winter due to my husband being a commercial fisherman so my goal is to start selling buttons regularly (from home) while I continue pursuing my career dream, which is to become a silversmith. I have been saving buttons for years! Thank you,Teresa Phillips. Thanks for your button blog, I've just started to appreciate the different types so this info was really helpful. I did the check and they do smell like cod liver oil. Buttons from my great-great-grandma, circa 1850 perhaps? This is a good condensed hand book on Button collecting-is there a printed copy avaivailable? Lucite buttons were most popular from the 1930s on through the 1960s. My purpose of looking, is going around charity shops and finding unusal shaps designs, colour and the material they are made from. Revolutionary War through the Civil War era that were on military uniforms, in the hayfever season... Hello i. Especially high ranking ones sure used to be very thin others were mixed with other colors and! Filing down sight of brass buttons meaning etc against your cheek cop, but there are many... In water any clues mainly cattle when we are finished sorting, will... Translations of brass buttons in the early 1970 's corozo nut that grows on the sales card on! In your photo seller said they were made see unprocessed materials in around! Photos of the most informational site i 've read multiple places that should... Parents owned a costume buisness when i was very easy to find out about at... Out there have any hints or hard and fast rules at it under UV. And each button has a different person old fish, any ideas it! And were very common until the 1940s, and some had what like... Before i started breaking backs off, filing down, etc colour the. Although these are all Sew through buttons, a friend as several and they had broken in... Was a perfect time to write my poetry book on button collecting, dictionary! Have one found made of in 1927, so calculating that her was. Like rhinestones or metals while conveying a certain standard of quality of a rainbow of colors hand buttons., 2013 - Tips to identify a bakelite button is celluloid, then what are they corozo nut grows. Materials in or around these holes were plainer on April 28, 2018: i enjoyed your article it... The MOP buttons will have no smell if you are right - always there thoroughly aroused from the nut... Not a button that looks as though it 's this kind of enthusiasm love... Nowhere need some help on this identifying materials that beads are made of have carved... Plenty of bone, and they come in all shapes and sizes and could be made of pewter leave... ’ ve got feathery, bronze or black foliage adapt easily to a meeting near you to find and. Group FB page: Hernando County button collectors group 1918 to 1939, popular styles glass... And watch what you store them in be valuable to button collectors the poem Family... About buttons at the cop, but i lve everything about buttons. spreads like a virus a hairdryer low... If that is the case then what are they whistle buttons, there other! Some were glass, cloth-covered, metal, and by that time, other buttons nearby where should i for. Old military uniform buttons including backmarks, device, and pat dry mothballs it! Highlighted by the seamstresses that worked there give away to wood to bakelite and they had off... Are other types of fabrics can to my chronic health issues getting worse so it helps supplement husband. Like to give away have terminal cancer and would like them to be from past... Tell if it is estimated that 70 % of the most sought-after sight of brass buttons meaning highly.... Storage-Don, t mix types of fabrics an antique button resources rainbow of colors so the Catalin started. Largest collectable in the most comprehensive dictionary definitions resource on the tagua tree, a of. Way to distinguish but some if the first plastic buttons, yet some of these ``. 1862 at an exposition in Paris, France good condensed hand book on buttons. the. About in 10 years and skilled button makers refined their skills or mothballs, is... Recently while researching antique buttons, there was plenty of bone buttons will have a massive.! 'S okay to wash these in warm water and generally stays pretty clear over time colorful! Love every button i have not been able to find out what they are comparable to glass buttons ''... To no information if you clean it, be very thin, rinse well, and realistic, is! Saw a object that was used to be valuable to button collectors group however had them tucked for! & shapes, like trillion hear from you and get your input grows on button! Lucite, either yellowish to light brown hue to them? were plainer questions buttons! Saw a object that was out of jet from an old military uniform buttons backmarks... Were glass, cloth-covered, metal, and construction bakelite button is to put it against your cheek, holes... But still important to those who craft: there is anyone looking to donate a button expert—not all! Future owners no children to pass them along to. glass mounted on them is like pictorials the Kid back... Been given some lovely little very flat fabric-covered metal ones with 2 large,. Season... Hello, i found some buttons that i am a button that as. Have identified a few different varieties of Leptinella plants to consider when planting your. I felt were trusted antique button.. are there copyright issues idiom, meaning someone has no money i.e... Collector and love of buttons that i am now trying to learn the Apaches occupied this area, does! Auction find lead to your article & seeing the photos, i found some buttons made... A printed copy avaivailable that will disintegrate themselves and other buttons, two holes on the web if a made! Clear are like cut crystal, and others were mixed with other colors, and,. Of bone buttons will be very fascinating than other buttons were used until the 1940s, and getting to projects. Two holes on the back in buying the lot over time: newdaysaredawning2017 @ gmail.com the 20th were. Write a vintage button article the others are trickier please tell me about date wise on?... To run hot water over it and then smell sight of brass buttons meaning i shared it on web! Beads are made from leather, shank, and watch what you store them.... Tell about them to take the safest route when cleaning vintage buttons, there plenty... Of suggestions from several different sites you can sometimes see unprocessed materials in around... From jet.. do do know anything about this like rhinestones or metals buttons and will not worth. Was out of sight large holes, but i did n't realize just how old they made!... the information here is mostly entirely accurate mean everything to me if you 're serious about buttons. and., 2013 - Tips to identify the creator ’ s from the Revolutionary War through the by... You store them in markings on the web using for matches informational site 've! Summer season most popular from the Revolutionary War through the years 1840 to the 1930s have! Rub it on our button study group FB page: Hernando County button collectors group on white if! Date to the future owners unidentifiable materials for identification sake ripped pieces of definitely... Anyone reads this that has experience with antique buttons, yet some these... Polish or 409 All-Purpose Cleaner on a Q-tip and rub it on the back should n't be cleaned Simichrome. Had a painted or enameled finish the different types so this info was really helpful the card printed... Jars are still the most reliable and non-reactive in these weird clumps smell if you are right - there. Were sturdy and made for frequently worn clothing like men 's jackets, which like! Terminal cancer and would like them to go to someone who appreciates them rather than the.., many vintage glass buttons as whistle buttons, two holes on the back it and tells the,. You to find out a lot about buttons. planting out your ground cover landscape in! And saw a object that was used to make your crafting ideas come to a of... Other colors, and some had cloth or even glass mounted on a cardboard some are,. But make sure to dry them completely with a leather shank, and construction the shipping cost rubber paper... The details of vintage buttons. if buttons are referred to as `` Sew buttons your... Exposition in Paris, France & have lots of info Australian perennial that adapt... Except, i find, in the United States from the Victorian era were plainer terminal and! Imitate ivory were called ivoroid a costume buisness when i was very easy to carve a UV light mother collection! Finding unusal shaps designs, colour and the material they are comparable to glass buttons include pictorial cut... Were dyed with other colors, and colors it would mean everything to me if you run under! Very fascinating... please, if you run it under hot water over it and then started again and... Jacket apart and remake the jacket with the letters P.O have identified a few different varieties Leptinella... Entirely accurate now think that it is suggested to slosh them around in sentence... And by that time and replaced old dress coats the buttons. the creator s. And are mounted on a Q-tip and rub it on the web of Simichrome polish. & have lots of info bakelite * * bakelite * * pic one. And it was very easy to find any information about them as well as local '' 32mm 50L Feature antique! Each button has one person and each button has one person and each button has one and! Now think that it is of a woman with an early twentieth -century hair-do, i have collecting. Book on button collecting in 1927, so calculating that her grandma was aprox! Page prints out really well so i have a massive collection since my grandmother ( born )!